division_name: Hunting Bill
motion: <p>Order for Second reading read. 
  <p>
   I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
  <p> 
      Mr. Simon Hughes  (Southwark, North and Bermondsey):  
   On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You might already have made an announcement, and I apologise if I missed it, but there are two reasoned amendments on the Order Paper and I wondered whether you had selected either of them and, if not, whether you could make that clear, because there are interests behind both.
  <p>The numbers of people registered as subscribers, members and supporters
  <p>is estimated to be 67,000. On popular days many more may hunt.
  <p>the number of people involved may be significantly higher.
  <p>so small as to be almost invisible in terms of national aggregates.
  <p>whether legislators could point to unnecessary suffering or some other reference point beyond mere disapproval, to reflect the general interest . . .
  <p>
  Those of us who oppose the Bill must take seriously the Burns report's conclusion that hunting, in the famous phrase,
  <p> 
   
  seriously compromises the welfare of the fox
  <p>night shooting can give rise to concern on the part of those living in the area.
  <p>None of the legal methods of fox control is without difficulty from an animal welfare perspective.
  <p>We shall legislate at the earliest available opportunity.--[ Official Report , 27 June 2000; Vol. 352, c. 719.]
  <p>We aim to legislate as soon as parliamentary time allows.
  <p>will do so as parliamentary time allows---[ Official Report , 19 December 2000; Vol. 360, c. 220.]
  <p>Hare no 1.
  <p> 
   
  This hare was producing milk . . . The hare was very pale indicating substantial bleeding before death. The skull was crushed and the brain damaged. One eye had been forced from the socket . . . 9 ribs were fractured, a lung punctured and substantial bleeding had occurred into the chest . . .
  <p> 
   
  Hare no 4.
  <p> 
   
  The hare was heavily pregnant . . . substantial injuries and bruising over the back of the hare . . . Some of the spinal bones were broken and a kidney displaced.
  <p>Fox 3
  <p> 
   
  . . . no indication of damage to the . . . (neck) vertebrae.
  <p>destruction of the structure of the heart and lungs.
  <p>Cause of death
  <p> 
   
  Profound trauma by repeated dog bite.
  <p>seriously compromises the welfare of the fox.
  <p>moral and intellectual courage to accept the right of others to have different traditions, lifestyles, allegiances and beliefs.
  <p>That this House declines to give a Second Reading to a Bill which fails to deal at all with animal welfare and intentional cruelty towards wild mammals, but is solely directed at the practice of hunting with dogs.
  <p>The House of Lords prevented the fox hunting Bill from proceeding.--[ Official Report , 13 July 2000; Vol. 353, c. 1102.]
  <p>only the terrierman and an assistant should be involved in the dig out.
  <p>The fox can punish and his attentions can cause a terrier's head and muzzle to swell like a pumpkin, though in this day and age antibiotics control the worst effects.
  <p>Breaking through I found a very dead fox and a nearly-dead terrier exhausted and bearing horrendous lacerations to his head; the old boy was nearly a goner.
  <p>I set about moving a large rock that was now blocking my progress. It proved to be the end of the road. When I rolled it away, there was Turk and the fox both dead.
  <p>From above ground we could hear the terrible fighting below us. The screaming of the dog and fox was only partly muffled by the layers of earth and rock that separated us from it. The noise moved for about ten minutes around different parts of the earth and then went quiet . . . Then the huntsman said, "All right, that's us then," and headed back downhill.
  <p>Oh . . . that's all right. It'll either be dead and the fox will be eating it, or the fox'll be dead and she will be eating the fox. Don't worry, I'm sure she'll be back home in a couple of days, once she's slept the whole thing off.
  <p>This is a complex issue that is full of paradoxes.
  <p>It is likely that, in the event of a ban on hunting, many farmers and landowners would resort to a greater degree than at present to other methods to control the numbers of foxes . . . None of the legal methods of fox control is without difficulty from an animal welfare perspective. Both snaring and shooting can have serious adverse welfare implications.
  <p>Our tentative conclusion is that lamping using rifles, if carried out properly and in appropriate circumstances--
  <p>has fewer adverse welfare implications than hunting, including digging-out. However, in areas where lamping is not feasible or safe--
  <p>there would be a greater use of other methods.
  <p>It is worth noting . . . that lamping has its limitations. It can be time-consuming, is not always suited to the terrain and night shooting can give rise to concern on the part of those living in the area.
  <p>Drag and bloodhound hunting are different from live quarry hunting.
  <p>It is unlikely that either drag and bloodhound hunting or drag coursing would of themselves mitigate to any substantial extent any adverse effects on the rural economy or the social life of the countryside arising from a ban on hunting.
  <p>It is clear that, especially for participants in more isolated rural communities, hunting acts as a significant cohesive force, encouraging a system of mutual support. Farmers and other landowners--many of whom feel increasingly isolated--are both the linchpins and the main beneficiaries of the system. Many of them also value hunting as an expression of a traditional, rural way of life and would strongly resent what they would see as an unnecessary and ill-informed interference with it. As a result it would increase their sense of alienation.
  <p>Broadly speaking, support was highest in all areas amongst men, older people, those who had lived in the area for a long time, people working in rural occupations and those in lower social class bands.
  <p>The research findings do not really support the claim that is sometimes made that, even in rural areas with a strong hunting tradition, there is much greater opposition to hunting than is generally supposed.
  <p>We consider that it might be productive, in the absence of a ban, to explore the possibility of introducing some form of licensing system, possibly on the lines of those which exist to regulate hunting in some other countries.
  <p>This experience seriously compromises the welfare of the hare--
  <p>Law based on the opinions of the majority is nearly always unsound and illiberal, and so would the proposed ban on hunting be.
  <p>I cannot give any absolute assurance about what we do in a new Parliament. We cannot get people thinking that if things are changed they can be changed back easily.
  <p>
  Why does he not get off the fence?
  <p>the only option that can be fully justified on scientific, common sense and moral grounds is a complete ban.
  <p>hare hunting and coursing are essentially carried out for recreational purposes.
  <p>The town versus country claim is irresponsible for it attempts to divide Britain. My constituency covers both town and country and I find plenty of rural opposition to hunting . . .
  <p>seriously compromises the welfare of the fox
  <p>In the vast majority of cases, the time to insensibility and death is no more than a few seconds.
  <p>a profoundly impressive study, cogent and well argued.--[ Official Report , 12 June 2000; Vol. 351, c. 639.].
  <p>The test of a democracy is not whether you accord rights to people you agree with, it is whether you accord rights to people with whom you profoundly disagree.
  <p>hunt kennels provide a valued service to the farming industry by removing casualty and fallen stock.
  <p>I have found it exciting this morning: there has been a whiff of class struggle in the air.--[ Official Report , 28 November 1997; Vol. 301, c. 1244.]
  <p>certainly is not and must never be referred to as a substitute or an alternative for live quarry hunting.
  <p>Question put,  That the Bill be now read a Second time:--
  <p>The House divided:  Ayes 373, Noes 158.
  